Worlds Away Forums - European MMORPG and Gaming Community

Gaming news, discussion, guilds, semi-coherent burblings and Trout Cannon
It is currently Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:02 pm

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:59 pm 
Offline
News Dungeon Master
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:09 am
Posts: 3590
Location: Kopervik Norway
Steam ID: Balc0ra
Origin ID: Balc0ra
So I know many, many that bought GTA 4 and 5 on console when it came back in the day. Then again on PC when it was released there, just to mod and fool around with the game.

The tool to use then was OpenIV. It works on both GTA 4 and 5. So you can manipulate the game to your liking, add new content. Or even take in MP only content, and test it in SP. That last part is what Take 2 did not like. Why? Because GTA Online is still there due to microtransactions. So when new MP only content arrives, they make sure that the new cars cost a pretty penny. So that most causal players that don't have 90 million in the bank, have to buy money to try the cars out. But as I said, most cars and outfits and weapons are MP only. They are not in the SP. And most don't want to spend time or money in the MP. As SP is still more fun. So they used OpenIV to mod the MP content into SP. So they can use it. Thus Take 2 "loses" money. And they did not like that.

Even less that GTA community contributors that live of youtube by showing off mods, are encouraging them to do that, vs buying it in GTA online. And they did not take that accusation lightly. Last night GTA V had over 130 official CC. Now they have less then 30. One of the biggest one has already changed the name of his channel, and removed all GTA videos from it. And is now a "lets play" channel. Some even removed all kerbal space program videos to. As they were bought by Take 2 last week. And most channels that more or less live of GTA V mods, don't know what to do know. One of them has 4 million subscribers on a channel that is less then 2 years old. And he went out today saying he don't know what to do know with the channel now.

Take 2 recently went the legal way, took legal action and sent lawyers to take OpenIV to court. They even sent Private investigators to the GTA 5 modders home in the early stages. As this started last year.
So now Take 2 won in court. And OpenIV is now banned by law to be used in any GTA game. And is from what I understand blocked in the game. So the modding community in GTA 5 is now officially dead.

Tho financial reasons was the main objective to get it away, as the Take 2 CEO more or less said so in his statement about it. The legal reason for it used in court, was that the modding software violate take 2's rights. And defeats security features impeded in GTA 4 and 5. And they want it removed as it's a threat to GTA online security.. even tho it's a SP tool. But last night the team behind the 10 year old tool OpenIV saw defeat, and agreed to take it down, and have the tool blocked.

The EULA for GTA 4 says nothing about reverse engineer. But the EULA for GTA 5 says
Quote:
You agree not to… reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble, display, perform, prepare derivative works based on, or otherwise modify the Software, in whole or in part…

And the Court did agree that the mod tool did violate that part of the EULA. And more or less ordered them to stop.

Tho the team behind the modding tool did say today that they can counter act this by fighting it as "fair use" to prove their actions are legal, as most lawyers online have suggested they do to. They won't. As spending that much time and effort to fight it, is not worth it for their team. And it will take to much time. And will be a financial blow if they lose. Even if they did prove they did not violate anything in the Eula directly. Nor that the tool affects MP at all.


Top that off... last week a mod to get the Red Dead redemption map into GTA 5 was pulled. As Take 2 did sends their lawyers that way to. And tossed cease and desist their way.

It's sad really. That GTA online is the reason that modding in GTA V is now deemed "illegal by law". And GTA V had one of the biggest modding community in the world. A selling point of the game more so then Online ever did. As GTA V on PC would not do that well if there were zero mod support to expand the life span of the game. I still install GTA 4 now and then to fool around in it. Now I can't. Take 2 should look to other devs like Bethesda and how they have embraced the modding community. To even add a mod workshop on their console versions of Skyrim and Fallout 4. Tho they do disable saving and achievement tracking and unlocking while in use. It's still fun to play around with some of them. Like the Max Payne mod for Fallout 4.

Edit:
FYI Rockstar's hands are tied on this. As they have promoted mods for years, but now they are legally bound by Take 2 not to do this anymore. Also I did try to use the tool today. And was told to remove it, and got a threat of legal action if I did not. Even tho the tool don't work.

_________________
Best German commander ever
Image
Never Forget
Image
1959 - 2015


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:32 pm 
Offline
Omnipresent
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 1:00 pm
Posts: 4490
Location: Second Star To The Right
Steam ID: Talon2000uk
Origin ID: Yeah right!
This is a ver dangerous legal precedent. EULAs have never been legally binding and allowing them to become so which is what will happen if this judgement stands is a very slippery slope indeed.

What country did this decision take place in?

_________________
Talon Korsairre
Getting Drunk In Multiple Universes Since 1980 :drunk:

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:20 am 
Offline
News Dungeon Master
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:09 am
Posts: 3590
Location: Kopervik Norway
Steam ID: Balc0ra
Origin ID: Balc0ra
Talon wrote:
This is a ver dangerous legal precedent. EULAs have never been legally binding and allowing them to become so which is what will happen if this judgement stands is a very slippery slope indeed.

What country did this decision take place in?


Though true.. and as I said, they could fight it based on what you said. But the people behind the mod said it was not worth neither the money or time. Even less if they lost it.
This was a US legal case. Started by a private investigator that went to the modders demanding papers and any info they had, and ending up in the high court. And the mod tool was developed in the US, the people behind it was from the US. So by US court order and by law, they have to stop development of the tool. Not sure how it works with regards to us using it, as we are not from the US, and not bound by US law as such. But it's still not illegal according to a fairly big game lawyer on twitter located in Germany, for take 2 to block the mod and prevent if from being used. But threatening with legal action to even no US citizens is past the line. As I was when I did try and start it last night.


Tho a few hours ago Rockstar did post an update on this. As since this news arose, the game has gotten more or less 20 000 negative reviews on steam in less then 24 hours. And has pushed the average score down. And what they said was basically "it's not our fault". By instantly pointing at Take 2. But also saying they were not targeting single player mods. But more so that OpenIV opens up for sub mods that allow for harassment of players, and interfere with the GTA online experience. Tho in court, Take 2 was targeting all mods, inc single player mods as a violation of the EULA. As one of the images of the case had the Iron Man mod on screen. And that's not a MP mod.

_________________
Best German commander ever
Image
Never Forget
Image
1959 - 2015


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:49 pm 
Offline
Omnipresent
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 1:00 pm
Posts: 4490
Location: Second Star To The Right
Steam ID: Talon2000uk
Origin ID: Yeah right!
While they can threaten legal action to non us citizens this case will not set precedent outside the US. Until a decision like this is made in a EU court EULA are not legally binding. However as I said earlier now a precedent has been set in the US they have more legitimacy now than they did before in that country. Most legal decisions are based on precedent and up until now none has been set in the US. That all changed with this decision.

Going back to reason for this I think we can say that its because of the loss of income in shark cards that Take Two see as being a direct result of users being able to try out the new GTA content in single player using this Mod. There is absolutely no other reason I can see for them to ban it as it doesn't, despite what they say, enable the trainers that are being used in online mode. This is an asset swapping mod nothing more. The creators even took great pains to make sure it could not be used online. This is Take 2 being a bunch of greedy ass holes, nothing more, nothing less.

Jim Sterling had a good video on the whole situation for those that want more info.

_________________
Talon Korsairre
Getting Drunk In Multiple Universes Since 1980 :drunk:

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:09 pm 
Offline
Legendary
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:42 am
Posts: 1928
Location: Galactic Sector ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha
Steam ID: Watashi
I hope they don't do the same with Kerbal Space Program. Removing modding would kill the game.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:42 am 
Offline
Darth Africanus
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2004 8:40 am
Posts: 1948
Location: South Africa
Steam ID: Leightonstm
Origin ID: Tygarus
I feel for the developers - BioWare had same shit with EA ages ago, etc etc. Always a corporate agenda that forces developers to apologise to communities and then some split or teams break apart, etc. Very sad indeed.

I saw the Steam movement and it's massive. The game is now overwhelmingly negative and I wonder if the next one launches what people will do. On the one hand, they may want to protest, but on the other, the games are so very, very good. And gamers, historically, have been terrible at talking with their wallets.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:21 pm 
Offline
Omnipresent
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 1:00 pm
Posts: 4490
Location: Second Star To The Right
Steam ID: Talon2000uk
Origin ID: Yeah right!
Yeah I'm not a great believer in steam protests. :D

_________________
Talon Korsairre
Getting Drunk In Multiple Universes Since 1980 :drunk:

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:30 am 
Offline
Darth Africanus
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2004 8:40 am
Posts: 1948
Location: South Africa
Steam ID: Leightonstm
Origin ID: Tygarus
Yeah, exactly my point lol. Love the pic


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:17 pm 
Offline
News Dungeon Master
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:09 am
Posts: 3590
Location: Kopervik Norway
Steam ID: Balc0ra
Origin ID: Balc0ra
Well Take 2 did also take legal action against a GTA online hack. But used the same excuse for single player hacks. That they are a threat to online.

But in the following days one youtuber that lives of GTA 5 mod videos, got them working again. Using a tool called "script hook" that works around the block. So far take 2 has not said anything about it. But I suspect it's only a matter of time before the Take 2 legal team hears about it.

_________________
Best German commander ever
Image
Never Forget
Image
1959 - 2015


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 3:35 pm 
Offline
News Dungeon Master
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:09 am
Posts: 3590
Location: Kopervik Norway
Steam ID: Balc0ra
Origin ID: Balc0ra
So it seems Rockstar has talked to Take 2. And asked them to calm down. And Take 2 seems to have agreed to give Rockstar more control over what is allowed or not atm.

As they went out today to announce that they want players to show their creativity with mods, as long as it don't impact online. And Take 2 will not take more legal actions against third party projects involving Rockstars PC games that are single-player. They did say that online is still protected the same way.

I suspect that all the bad reviews of late has forced them to take action. As the steam page has gone from overly positive to just positive. But the details of the new agreement is not revealed yet.

But... they said online is still protected, and anything in it. So I suspect that mod tools that take online only cars into single-player is still illegal. Nor do we know what will happen to the mod tool they killed off, that was only used for single-player. Vs the tool that was used for online. But in the coming days they will announce more. But for now, they have gotten Take 2 to step back a little. Tho openVI had some limited impact online. As in time of day etc iirc. So if they removed that, then who knows if they will allow it again or not.

_________________
Best German commander ever
Image
Never Forget
Image
1959 - 2015


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group